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「James Corden 公開反擊 Bill Maher 針對『肥胖羞辱』的言論」- James Corden Responds to Bill Maher's Fat Shaming Take


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Certainly is. Now, I want to talk with you about something. Last week, I was watching the television, and Bill Maher sat at a host desk, like this one; he looked into the camera, like I'm doing now, and he talked on his show about fat-shaming. He argued that it'd gone away and needed to make a comeback. Take a look.
沒錯。有件事我想跟你們聊聊。上禮拜,我在看電視,看著 Bill Maher 坐在一個像這樣的主持台前;他看著鏡頭,就像我現在這樣,然後他在他的節目上談論「肥胖羞辱」。他辯論著肥胖羞辱已經不存在,還說它應該要回歸。我們來看片段。

Being fat isn't a birth defect. Nobody comes out of the womb needing to buy two seats on the airplane. We have gone to this weird place where fat is good. It's pointing out that fat is unhealthy. That's what's bad. Fat-shaming doesn't need to end, needs to make a comeback. Some amount of shame is good.
肥胖可不是先天缺陷。沒有人一出生就需要買飛機上的兩個座位耶。我們現在居然會覺得肥胖是好的。肥胖已經證實是不健康的。這很糟糕耶。肥胖羞辱不該停止,它應該要回歸。有點羞愧感是好事。

Thanks for that, Bill.
真是謝啦,Bill。

So, I'm sat at home, and I'm watching this. And all I could think of as I was watching, I was like, "Oh, man! Somebody needs to say something about this. If only there was someone with a platform who knew what it was actually like to be overweight." And then I realized, "Aw! That would be me!" Oh, no.
我坐在家看著這個片段。我在看的時候,腦中只浮現:「天啊!該有人站出來說話了吧。要是能有個人真的知道過重是什麼感受,而他又剛好有一個能發聲的平台,能有這樣的人就好了。」接著我恍然大悟:「啊!那個人就是我呀!」喔,不。

Now, here's the thing, I actually have a lot in common with Bill Maher; I do. We shoot—we both shoot our shows here, in the same building. We both host the second most popular talk shows on our network. And we've both made...shall we say "questionable choices" in our film careers? Bill was in a movie called Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death, which is about—true—about an all-female tribe of cannibalistic avocado farmers. And I appeared in the classic film The Lesbian Vampire Killers, which is about lesbian vampire killers. No, don't you dare clap it. No. It's exactly as bad as you think it is. Right.
重點來了,其實我跟 Bill 有很多共通點;真的。我們錄--我們都在這棟大樓裡錄節目。我們都主持各自電視台裡第二受歡迎的節目。而我們都在我們的影劇生涯中做了...該說是「未必正確的」決定嗎?Bill 參與了一部叫做《鱷梨死亡叢林中的食人族婦女》的拍攝,這是一部關於--真的啦--關於一個都是女人的部落裡的食人族酪梨農夫。而我則是演出了經典電影《女同志吸血鬼殺手》,這是一部關於女同性戀吸血鬼殺手的電影。不,不准拍手。不行。它就跟你們想像中的一樣糟糕。嗯。

I gotta say, right, that any time I've met Bill Maher in person, he's been nothing but pleasant, and kind, and nice, which is why I found it so surprising that he, or anybody, thinks that fat-shaming needs to make a comeback. Because fat-shaming never went anywhere. I mean, ask literally any fat person. We are reminded of it all the time—on airplanes, on Instagram, when someone leaves a pie on the window sill to cool, and they give us a look like, "Don't! Don't you dare! Don't you."
我得說,我每次遇到 Bill 本人時,他都相當和善,所以我才會那麼驚訝聽到他,或任何人,說肥胖羞辱應該回歸。因為肥胖羞辱一直都存在著啊。我是說,你隨便問一個胖子就知道了。我們無時無刻都被提醒著--在飛機上、在 Instagram 上,當有人把派在窗戶旁放涼時,他們會看著我們,就像在說:「不行!你別想給我吃掉!不行。」

Now, there's a common and insulting misconception that fat people are stupid and lazy. And we're not. Right, we get it. We know. We know that being overweight isn't good for us. And I've struggled my entire life, trying to manage my weight. And I suck at it, right? I've had good days...and bad months. I've basically been off and on diets since as long as I can remember. And, well... This is how it's going, right? No. But we're not—
有一個很常聽到又很羞辱人的誤解是,胖的人都又笨又懶。但我們才沒有。我們懂。我們知道。我們知道過重對健康不好。我整個人生都努力地想控制我的體重。而我做的實在糟透了,對吧?順利的時候只有幾天...不順利的時候長達幾個月。自我有記憶以來,我就一直反反覆覆地在控制飲食。嗯,然後...結果就變這樣啦,對吧?不。但我們不是--

Here's the thing, we're not all as lucky as Bill Maher, you know? We don't all have a sense of superiority that burns 35,000 calories a day. Right? I kid because I love!
重點來了,我們不是都和 Bill 一樣幸運耶,你知道嗎?我們可沒有一天消耗三萬五千大卡的優勢耶。對吧?我開玩笑的啦!

Bill, I sincerely believe that what you think you're offering here is tough love. And you're just trying to help by not sugarcoating reality for fat people, even though you know how much fat people love sugarcoating things. But the truth is, you're working against your own cause. It's proven that fat-shaming only does one thing: It makes people feel ashamed. And shame leads to depression, anxiety, and self-destructive behavior—self-destructive behavior like overeating.
Bill,我真心地相信你是刀子嘴豆腐心。你只是不想將事實用糖衣包裝,儘管你知道胖子有多愛把東西裹上糖衣。但說實話,你這是適得其反。這是已經被證實的,肥胖羞辱只會造成一件事:讓人感到羞愧。羞愧會讓人出現憂鬱、焦慮和自殘的行為--像是暴飲暴食這樣的自殘行為。

When I watched that clip, I got up, walked to the freezer and grabbed a pint of ice-cream. I'm kidding. I was already halfway through the pint when I started watching. But Bill may have made me finished it. He might have done.
當我在看那個片段的時侯,我起身到冷凍庫拿了一桶冰淇淋。我開玩笑的啦。我開始看電視的時候就已經吃了半桶了。但有可能是因為 Bill 我才吃完的。八成是他害的。

And this term—we're using this term "fat-shaming." We've come up with a name for it. Let's be honest, fat-shaming is just bullying. That's what it is; it's bullying. And bullying only makes the problem worse, okay? I don't think stuff like this is gonna solve the obesity epidemic.
然後這個詞--我們在用「肥胖羞辱」這個詞。我們還為它取了名字耶。講真的,肥胖羞辱就是霸凌呀。就是這樣;它就是霸凌。而霸凌只會造成反效果,好嗎?我不覺得這樣能解決過胖問題。

It's not just about being able to see a doctor; it's also about being able to see your d**k.
這不只和你能不能去看醫生有關;他還關係到你能不能看到你的小弟弟。

Believe me. I can see a d**k.
相信我。我看得到(註)。

Now, look. Now, look. Bill Maher makes some interesting points if you go back and watch it all, but there's a lot that he got wrong in this piece, including making the claim that Europe doesn't really have fat people.
聽好了。聽好了。如果你回去看整片段,你會看到 Bill Maher 說到很多重點,但他在這段中也有很多說錯的地方,包含他聲稱歐洲沒有很多胖子。

Europe doesn't look like this because Europe's not always eating for two.
歐洲人沒有胖成這樣是因為他們不會餐餐都吃兩人份呀。

Your honor, I'd like to present exhibit A.
庭上,物證 A 在此。

I know. I know that Britain's relationship with Europe is strange right now, but I lived there for 37 years, and trust me, there are fat people in Europe, maybe not as many as in America, but the reasons for that are complex. In fact, this entire issue is a lot more complex than he's making it out to be.
我知道。我知道英國現在和歐洲之間的關係有些奇特,但我那住了 37 年,相信我,歐洲是有胖子的,或許不如美國多,但會這樣的原因有很多。事實上,這個議題比他所說的還要複雜許多。

Now, Bill is right about one thing. He really, really is. This is a health problem. It's an issue that needs to be discussed clearly and honestly. It's an epidemic. And when you look at the numbers, it's terrifying. There are numerous reasons why people live their lives at an unhealthy way. Junk food, portion control, a lack of exercise—these are all major contributing factors. But poverty is also an issue.
Bill 說對了一件事。他真的、真的沒說錯。這是個健康問題。這是個需要被好好討論的議題。這是個流行病。而且那些數字可會嚇壞你。人們會不健康地過活的原因有很多。垃圾食物、份量控制、缺乏運動--這些都是主要的因素。但貧窮也是個問題。

A study conducted by the University of Michigan Health System found that childhood obesity is directly linked to poverty. But, fun fact: If you shame obese children, Wholefoods will give them free salads. I'm kidding. That's not how Wholefoods works. Sometimes genetics plays a role. You know, there's a molecular geneticist named Jeffrey Friedman, who discovered a hormone called "leptin." Defects in the leptin gene are linked directly to obesity. They are. And here's a fun fact: If you shame the gene, it actually fixes itself. I'm kidding. That's not how science works.
密西根大學健康系統做的研究指出,孩童的肥胖和貧窮有直接關係。但,有趣的是:如果你羞辱過重的孩子,全食超市就會給他們免費的沙拉哦。開玩笑的啦。全食超市才不是這樣做的。有時候這跟基因也有關係。你們知道嗎,有一個叫做 Jeffrey Friedman 的分子基因學家,他發現了一個叫做「瘦蛋白」的賀爾蒙。瘦蛋白基因中的缺陷跟過胖有直接關聯。是真的有關聯哦。跟你說個有趣的小常識:如果你羞辱那條基因的話,它就會修補它自己的缺陷哦。開玩笑的啦。科學才不是這樣運作的咧。

A lack of shame is not the issue here. If making fun of fat people made them lose weight, there'd be no fat kids in schools, and I'd have a six-pack by now. Right? Until...until we make healthy food and healthcare more accessible, and we properly educate people on nutrition and exercise, maybe we can hold back on the whole "call fat people virgins until they lose weight" strategy. Right?
問題不在於缺乏羞恥心。如果嘲笑胖子會讓他們變瘦,學校裡就不會有胖小孩,而我現在早就已經有六塊肌了。對吧?直到...直到我們讓大家都更容易取得健康的食物和健保,還有在我們好好教育人們對於營養學和運動的知識前,或許我們應該先停止運用這種「在胖子瘦下來前叫他們處男、處女」的這種策略。對吧?

And I believe that Bill's heart is in the right place. And I truly like that he cares about the condition of my heart, and I will, I will keep trying. All the time, I am aware today that this is going to be a struggle that I will face for the rest of my life. Right? But in the meantime, Bill,
please hear me when I say this. While you're encouraging people to think about what goes into their mouths, just think a little harder about what comes out of yours.
我相信 Bill 立意良善。我真的很開心他在意我心臟的狀況,我會持續努力。一直以來,我都很清楚這會是我終生都要面對的問題。對吧?但是現在,Bill,請你聽我說。當你告訴人們要注意自己放入嘴巴裡的食物時,你應該先好好想過那些從你嘴裡講出來的話。

We'll be right back.
我們馬上回來。

註:dick 這個單字除了有男性生殖器的意思,還有混蛋的意思,所以 James Corden 這裡其實是一語雙關,一方面說自己雖然過重但還是看得到自己的小弟弟,另一方面就是在諷刺 Bill Maher 其實是個混蛋。

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